I love’em fat. I love’em skinny. I love’em short. I love’em long. I love’em funny, serious, hard or soft. I just love’em and I’m always lookin’ for fresh ones.
I like when they’re mysterious. I like when their adventurous. I’m not crazy about the romantic types, but I do like the ones that probe my heart. I like when they touch me, teach me and tell me what I need to know.
I’ve met them at Walmart, at the library and even at church, but my favorite place of all to hook up is over coffee at a Barnes & Noble. Sure, my wife gets jealous, but she also understands: I’m a book junkie.
My friend, Mike was just in my office slobbering all over my books and lusting for his own collection. I’ll probably keep my office locked from now on. I could see it in his eyes.
All this chatter about chapter and verse reminds me of a famous quote by Abraham Lincoln. He said,
“Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.”
No wait, that wasn’t Honest Abe, that was Groucho Marx. Anyway, books are cool.
Some people say they don’t have time to read. Those people usually work for people who found the time to read. Others say they just don’t like to read. I can relate. Feeding the mind can be a chore, but so can feeding the face.
Think about it, chewing is so much of a hassle that most people prefer mushy food like fast food burgers and ice cream over raw vegetables and tiger meat. But somehow, as laborious as it may be, we find the strength to chomp and chew. We have to! The stomach growls, the mouth waters and the head aches if we fail to fill the food hole. The body hungers for substance.
So does the mind.
If we always stuff our faces with easy to eat, smooth and creamy, super salty, super sweet, high fat, fast food - our bodies will tell on us. Our figure will broadcast a lack of discipline and diligence in the area of diet and exercise.
The same is true of the mind.
When our daily brain buffet consists of listening to foul-mouthed morning DJ’s, watching King of the Hill and reading the bad news paper, our mouth will spew what the mind hath chewed.
In America, we live in a culture of learning where knowledge is the currency by which we purchase influence. Influence should be important to all of us as believers. Christian influence points people to Christ.
Unschooled, ordinary men?
Acts 4:13 says:
When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.
Unschooled? These guys had tremendous influence. By the power of the Holy Spirit they won thousands to the faith and built the early church. Furthermore, John wrote five books of the New Testament and Peter wrote two; quite an accomplishment for unschooled, ordinary men.
Then there was Paul.
In Acts 22:3 Paul says of himself:
"I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. Under Gamaliel I was thoroughly trained in the law of our fathers and was just as zealous for God as any of you are today.
Paul was a thoroughly trained Pharisee with a love for books. Even in the closing hours of his life he requested that young Timothy bring him his books:
2 Tim. 4:13 (MSG)
Bring the winter coat I left in Troas with Carpus; also the books and parchment notebooks.
As a result of Paul’s zeal for God and his diligence in learning, the Lord chose him to write most of the New Testament and communicate Christ to many different cultures. Paul’s knowledge allowed him to effectively travel and share the gospel with paupers, philosophers, kings, governors, soldiers and religious scholars. His education expanded his influence.
God created our minds to eat knowledge. Books are the thinker’s soufflé’. God made our minds to be stretched. Books are the bow-flex of the brain. Books make us fit for connecting with the world we hope to reach.
So give your intellect a challenge. Spend a night reading instead of watching TV. Keep a book by the bed, by the toilet and in the car. Read in chunks. Read in bite-sized nuggets. Just read. Learn. Educate to communicate.
It is no more necessary that a man should remember the different dinners and suppers which have made him healthy, than the different books which have made him wise. Let us see the results of good food in a strong body, and the results of great reading in a full and powerful mind.~ Sydney Smith ~
41 comments:
I can tell some who have influenced maybe your writings, like people who you read(rob bell, Donald Miller) I was just wondering when you are going to write your own book so I can read it. I think it would be great if you did.
When I do Christy, you get a bonus copy for encouraging me.
Sara Briggs and I get ours first because we encouraged you at least a month ago. Just don't forget about us little people when you're big and famous.
hey, still no truck. We're still hanging with grammy and grumpy.
I'm already big and famous...and as hard as I try I can't forget any of you! Tell grumpy your pregnant again and that it's imperative that you sleep in his bed....so he'll have to take the couch.
Hi, PM, Remember the Greek word for I is ego...hehe. Do write that book! It will help alot of people who wouldn't read something from mainstream Christianity.
so what is the diffrence between King of the Hill and your favorite movie lists? Aren't we splitting hairs, I mean if your gonna go all holy why not just not watch anything with foul content. I'm sure theres not much left to watch but then again it sounds good right?
Oh, I'm not being legalistic...that's something you've read into it, however, in my defense, most of the movies I watch have some inspirational content. I also occasionally watch King of the Hill, read the "bad news paper" and even listen to what the foul-mouthed DJ's have to say. I also eat fast food...probably too much. The point is we shouldn't waste too much of our brain on things that do little to stretch our thinking.
test
I'm not sure I understand your reasoning. You either build up the flesh or the spirit there is no middle ground. Legalism has nothing to do with it. I thought that the eye was the light of our body and if it is full of darkness i.e. any foul content, then our bodies will emanate that darkness(matt 6:22-23) Also it has the ability to offend the Holy Spirit in us, is it so far fetched that what we willingly look upon to appease the flesh is counterproductive to the Holy Spirit that dwells inside us. I am concerned that you would coin the phrase "inspirational content" for what is so obvious to be seriously foul content. "Its one thing for your feet to get dirty but its altogether another that you wallow in the mud" -Nee See Matt 6:22. You advise people not to feed their minds with junk yet you do what exactly what you advise not to do. This is perplexing. Actually it is all too common in today's shallow Christianity. I would hope that you would lead by example instead of handing out empty words of instruction or is it justifiable to watch such things and deem them as an inspiration. What are they inspiring you to do?
Anonymous,
Thank you for engaging. This is why I put this blog up. I certainly don’t claim to have the only viewpoint on topics such as these- so your dialogue is more than welcome. Here’s a rebuttle:
1 Cor. 10:23 says:
"Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is constructive.
Now I don’t want to abuse that passage- but the fact is, considering my movie list- they were beneficial to me.
Saving Private Ryan left me feeling great respect for the veterans of WWII.- based on a true story. We Were Soldiers gave me new appreciation for our Vietnam Vets- based on a true story. Braveheart left me determined to live for a cause greater than myself. – based on a true story. The Patriot reminded of the price our forefathers paid in Revolutionary War. – obviously based on a true story. Gods and Generals educated me about the Civil War- again true story. Passion of the Christ- no comment needed. Lord of the Rings- Christian allegory- many great sermon illustrations. Napoleon Dynamite- rated PG- squeaky clean, fun movie.
All of these movies built up my spirit and moved me toward greatness in God. For instance, William Wallace’s quote in Braveheart- “All men die but few ever really live.” I applied this to my faith and the risks that I take for it.
I am not an advocate of watching today’s pointless violence and crude comedy. But I’m also aware that Paul knew the culture he was trying to reach-
1 Cor. 9:22
To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some.
Then in Acts 17 while witnessing before the Greek philosophers- Paul said-
Acts 17:23
For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you.
Then further down:
Acts 17:28
'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'
Paul knew the culture he was trying to reach and he was willing to look at their objects of worship very carefully AND even used quote from one their poets to draw out a biblical truth.
In my case- I am a missionary to the American people and therefore I must know their culture in order to communicate effectively the truths of God. I have to know their song so well I can quote lyrics like Paul. I have to trust the Holy Spirit to sanctify me and keep me from areas where the “monster” could be stirred. I have to get so close to the fire that my clothes smell like smoke:
Jude 1:23-25
snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear--hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.
And I trust that Jesus will keep me from crossing the line....
[24] To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy-- [25] to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
This is the Christian life I want to live- one on the battlefield where I realize the enemy isn’t sinners- it’s Satan himself. The most effective witnessing experience I’ve ever had was in a bar. By the time it was over sinners were singing Amazing Grace with me and weeping. That’s not a risk I’d take every day- but the Spirit led me to take it that day and Jesus kept me from being tempted.
The eye being- FULL OF DARKNESS has to do with a choice to crave and consume sinful things to gratify the flesh. This is the war we wage. There are however, matters of conscience. Paul brought this up concerning the repulsive practice of eating meat sacrificed to idols.
1 Cor. 8:9
Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. (read the whole chapter to get a better understanding)
This is where you may have a point. If my advocating of patriotic war movies and epic tales of heroism causes someone to stumble then I will have to give an answer to the Lord for that.
Thanks for your input!
To "Misha's family", no offense but for future reference try to use examples that pertain to the conversation instead of going on some tangent about a MTV show and being relevant to the world. I personally have seen the show you mention also and I watch TV almost everyday. While I do not live in a "God-bubble", far from it actually, I do understand your metaphor and would advise you to study the Bible on how we are to be relevant in American culture. Thanks for your opinion. First let me say that I am not condemning anyone for that would be....foolish but I do believe, unlike many Christians today that dialogue is healthy and should be a continual practice among believers, after all iron sharpens iron right? I must admit Mark your rebuttal shows your maturity in the Lord, yet I do not agree with your argument and here is why. You are making a case for relevancy in today’s culture by defiling yourself is somewhat redundant and meaningless. Anyone in their right mind would have to live in a cave to not be relevant in the age we live in. Must I conscientiously engage material not suited for a believer in Christ to be relevant today? I would hope not. The things that entertain and amuse you are those of the world. An example would be for starters is the language. I can understand hearing it in school or work by those of the world and suggesting alternative language that's one thing altogether but to be "entertained" is another. Here is the definition for entertain....
To hold the attention of with something amusing or diverting. See Synonyms at amuse.
To extend hospitality toward: entertain friends at dinner.
To consider; contemplate: entertain an idea.
To hold in mind; harbor: entertained few illusions.
Archaic. To continue with; maintain.
Obsolete. To employ; hire.
To give admittance to; receive.
this gives a whole new light on what should be entertaining our minds. I am not even going to try to persuade you to change any actions I am just presenting to you my own revelation in these matters through my own experience. Matt 22:37 says we should love the Lord with all of our heart, soul, and MIND. The greek word used here is dianoia...
1) the mind as a faculty of understanding, feeling, desiring
2) understanding
3) mind, i.e. spirit, way of thinking and feeling
4) thoughts, either good or bad
Also what amuses us should be considered also lest we be subtlety duped by our own understanding or ways (in which there is death Prov 14:12). A means to negate something and muse is a state of meditation or to be absorbed into one's thoughts. The key meaning here is to NEGATE like A theist. This is not beneficial by any means. What amuses us? What holds our attention? Is it the ideas and philosophies of the world or is it things that edify? The majority of verses used in your rebuttal are for the most part irrelevant to your argument. The only one I would seriously consider is 1 Cor 10:23 but lets look at what he is saying. All things are lawful but not all things are profitable, all things are lawful but not everything edifies. It would be safe to assume that Paul is referring to eating not entertaining yourself with any thing God would oppose. If it is not beneficial why do it? If it is not edifying why do it? Paul says that it doesn't matter if you eat or don't eat. I doubt Paul was in the fertility temples were mass orgies were going on witnessing more likely the synagogues. He never subjected himself to anything that would compromise his walk.
If Christ had to die for your sins why would you want to entertain yourself with those very sins regardless of how it makes you feel i.e. blasphemy? You are playing the worlds game in its terms. Those things that you are deriving your inspiration from are things that will eternally perish. Must I view sex scenes to make myself more knowledgeable to better my marriage with? C’mon see what I mean. Knowing a secular poem is hardly being relevant remember Paul had a serious education. Did Jesus ever go to the auditoriums and check out the games were gladiators hack each other up or witness in the temples were there were orgies? Of course not, neither did Paul. We have liberty because we do not live by the law not to be cultureraly relevant or to give occasion to the flesh but rather to work out our salvation.
Becoming weak to win the weak doesn't mean becoming spiritually detrimental in your walk so that you might be able to relate to someone in the world a little better, just being current in the news is sufficient enough. Mark I am appealing to you not because I am right and you are wrong or vice versa but because I want to see the most God can get out of you and your ministry. I hope you would take these thoughts into consideration and hold such matters to the scrutiny of the Word and not mere emotional experience. I understand the feelings associated with such films and any other form of media but less us not compromise but be separate from this world and let our light shine bright. The Great men of God were never great but NORMAL, it is we that are subnormal in our Christian experience. Lake, Wigglesworth, Etter, Ravenhill, Finney, Spurgeon, and those in the NT. They exhibited a normal walk with God unlike us. I do not exclude myself but press on to the prize set before me with a desire for God’s people to be who they are called to be and you can’t honestly say that will happen when you plop down in front of whatever Hollywood or MTV puts out more than you are on your knees and in the Word. I am not saying live by the law but closely examine what you ABSORB into your eye gates with a seriousness and determination to please Father. I want to encourage you to set the captives free and it doesn’t happen in our meaningless words unless they are solidified by our holy living. So let us cast off the weight and sin that so easily besets us. Notice it says weight first and not sin. Sin for the most part in Christians is a subtle growth from the weight that we willingly or unwillingly put on ourselves. May God bless you and your ministry with fire that consumes. Thank you for your objectivity in reading this reply.
In Him…
Anonymous I am interested in this discussion and I am ready to offer my thoughts on this issue. Pastor Mark I know, but you I don't. Must you remain anonymous? I would like to know your background and where you are coming from. Do you live in this area?
I just like to know a little bit about people before I engage them. My name is Josiah, I am 22 and I live in Gloucester county where I have attended LWC for over 10 years.
I will offer an observation on entertainment. I had a very good friend who attended a holiness church where TVs and movies and many other forms of entertainment were preached against. (ironically the Internet or computers were never preached against or discouraged and you can find far filthier stuff on a computer than you ever will on TV) It sounded good to me because at the time I thought the less of the world I allowed in I would become more pure and keep myself holy. I only attended this church several times, but the people weren't any different than the people I see everyday. I saw the pastor and his wife argue about something insignificant. I heard the father and grandfather of the worship leader telling ethnic jokes. My friend told me that she prayed against churches that weren't as enlightened in their beliefs and the pastor invited her to pray again. They had their holiness standards on the outside, but I didn't notice an internal difference.
I know that I spend more time with the God than I do with a TV. I spend a lot of time on my computer, but a good deal of it is doing this; talking with others and reading and learning. I don't watch TV at all, but I pick up the world elsewhere. Do I want to? Absolutely not, but this fallen world presents sin at every opportunity it gets. I typically watch a couple movies a week with my family. I have seen every movie that Pastor Mark mentions. I would add Black Hawk Down to the list of war movies. Those movies I didn't view for entertainment. I watched Black Hawk Down because my brother the ex-Marine told me it was the most realistic movie about the US military. I watched to see why men fight and die for each other. I watched because I crave adventure. I watched because my grandfather came under fire in Vietnam. I don't live in an enemy occupied country like Paul did. But I want to see how it is to rely on the soldier next to me because I live in a spiritual war every day. I see that in We Were Soldiers. I even read the book. I learned that you don't fight because you were given orders, you fight for those you love, for those around you.
In the end it comes down to choice. Everyone must personally respond to conviction. The pastor should preach holiness and pure living, but they cannot say what movies are ok and which are not. They can tell us to only watch g and pg movies, but it's still our choice. The shepherd guides his sheep, he doesn't control them. I abstain from TV and certain movies because I know that they could be harmful to me, not because the pastor told me to. Yes, iron sharpens iron and I enjoy discussions. I have more to say on this subject and Pastor Marks original subject, but it is 1:45 AM and I need to be up in 4 hours.
Anonymous,
Thank you again for your involvement on my blog. I whole-heartedly agree with what you have to say about holiness. But I don't believe what goes into a man makes him unclean...it's what comes out. You obviously know the Word well enough to know where that comes from. I do regard my eyes as the windows of my soul. I do recall the words of David- I will set no evil thing before my eyes. But I, like Josiah, watch the aforementioned movies- not for tantalizing entertainment but for genuine inspiration. None of the movies I mentioned have sex-scenes or blatant immorality just for the sake of provoking lustful thinking. Too be honest I watch very few movies and very little TV. I'd rather read. When Paul blurted out the quote by their own poet...he immediately had their attention. If TV had been invented, I'm sure Paul would have tuned into thier objects of worship. What Paul was saying was that God's truth can be found even in pagan places. "As one of your own poets has said, "we are God's offspring." One of the most harmful thing the church has done is try and convince it's people that truth can only be found in the church. A kid goes off to college and finds out the world isn't as stupid and foolish as we made it out to be. He finds objective thought and wisdom being spoken even from the mouths of atheist professors. Of course, we know all wisdom comes from God. Jesus is Wisdom. So the truth that is found in the world originated with God in the first place.
When we show ourselves ignorant of the culture and unable to speak their language we lose generations. That's why most churches have have a huge gap....the age group right in between teen and middle age. I don't condone everything the Foo Fighters write....but they made a good point with their song "The Best of You." They're great musicians who asked a very biblical question...who's getting the best of your life. I don't have to give sweeping permission to everything they do. Tim McGraw produced a song "Live Like You Were Dying"....awesome suggestion. Do I necessarily endorse all that Tim McGraw stands for?
I used to do seminars on the dangers of rock music. As I look back, I realized I did more harm than good. Don Wildman of the American Family Association spends his life cursing the darkness...someone deemed holier than all the others seems to watch all the movies and programs for him so he can rate each one by the number of curse words or sexual references. And you know what? The world hates him for it....not because he's a Christian...but because he spends his life attacking their life's work. The end result is that the world Jesus wants to save is appauled by us. Again, not because we are suffering for righteous sake, but because we are not known for our love....instead...we are known for bashing them. I think God wants to save Howard Stern don't you? Howard isn't the enemy...Satan is the enemy...and if I have to walk right into the fray to reach someone I will. This is where I suppose we part ways. I would recommend two books to you...both by Christian authors, "Blue Like Jazz" by Donald Miller but first read "Velvet Elvis" by Rob Bell. I believe God is doing something new in our day and these guys are on the leading edge. Ravenhill, Spurgeon, Moody and the like were chasing after a backslidden generation in a Christian culture. We're chasing after a generation totallt ignorant of God's Word and I believe we're going to have to get pretty close to the edge to reach them.
Blessings
I just happened upon your blog and started reading the exchange about the movies and the different opinions about interacting with the world. We can say many ways how we are able to live this way and live that way. How we can do this or that. That we have free choice. All of these things are true. We do have free choice, that is one of the things that God gave each one of us. We can choose heaven or hell. We choose to live righteously or we choose to live in the world. I believe my bible says to "be in the world but not of the world". There are also some "shall nots" in there.
In my many years of walking with the Lord, I have gone through many different levels of my relationship with Him. I used to watch movies for inspiration, but then I read something that said, Be ye holy for I am holy. I used to listen to secular music, but I determined that I could listen to the same style with a much better message. Mark, my spirit and I believe the Holy Spirit is saddened with the church today. The reasoning that you put forth that you have to become like the world to reach the world is what has gotten it in the position it is in today. It is not becoming user friendly that will win the lost. It will be through signs and wonders that will bring them in. It will not be your knowledge of the latest songs or movies or anything else of this world that will win the lost, but the power of the Holy Ghost!
You talk about the people like Lake, Wigglesworth, Ravenhill and the others speaking to a lost generation in a Christian culture. What has changed? If anything, the Christian culture is very lost. That is obvious by the comment of the people of this blog.
We talk a good game, but the talk dosen't get us where we need to be. It's action. It's holiness. It's being seperate from the things of this world. I will leave you with this one last thought. MT 7:21 Jesus said, "Not everyone that says to me Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on this day; Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in you name drive our demons and perform many miracles?. Then I will tell them plainly, "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers." I would rather error in judgement as being to much in the "God bubble" than not. Be blessed.
Josiah, I don't feel my identity is relevant to this discussion and are not hiding behind it either. With that being said I want to address both of your comments individually.
About your friend and his holiness church...it doesn't matter what church or even what denomination, these things are irrelevant. I agree that computers are just as dangerous as TV's when it comes to what can be viewed on them and how easily these things can be accessed, especially by those that are very young. You still have to exercise discerment when viewing these forms of media. I do not see why the pastor and his wife arguing is relevant who doesn't argue? Telling ethnic jokes is something that probably is caused by hatred in their hearts, who knows I am not saying you will be perfect, that is unrealistic. These issues of that holiness church proabaly have nothing to do what I am talking about but I do understand your point by saying -these people who don't watch "bad" things on TV are still acting unholy- I get it but these are not very good examples especially from a holiness church.
Most of the time these are legalistic churches that emphasize doctrines of men throwing liberty in Christ out the back door. You would be correct in saying they have an appereance of holiness on the outside but fail to have it on the inside. You are right this world will bombard you continually at every corner with sin but that does not give you an excuse to give in. If you are familiar with the teachings of Jesus you would see this principle driven home. This was one of Paul's main teachings also. I do not see why watching movies, (especially the ones you speak of) slam full of foul language is neccessary to recieve someones point of view. What if I want to watch pornography to better educate myself or "snuff" films of the internet to have a better understanding of what is really going on in the world. (snuff films are normally home video of a variety of activities ranging from murder to rape, usually the most vile things on video.) You are decieved into thinking you can take from the world what ever you choose and use it to benefit from. This is a false assumption. You are not immune to the enemy's vices and snares.
Why not just ask your grandpa what happened when he was in Nam I'm sure he would use some discretion. Why not rent a documentary on war? There are ways to find out different views and perspectifves of anything, well almost anything, without defiling yourself and subjecting your mind to evil things. You say you were not entertained but I know better that. Who are you trying to convince?You say you crave adventure, well so do, I is serving the Lord too boring? You say you do not live in enemy territory but in reality you do. This world is enemy territory.
The Bible says the world is at enmity with God and God is at enmity with the world. Enmity is mutual hatred and if God is at enmity with the world why are you not? Do you even know what you are fighting? Your right it does come down to a choice everything you do is choice so make the right one. Conviction does play a vital role as well but do not let your self believe that just because you are not convicted of something does'nt give you the liberty to do it. I do not feel convicted about doing alot of wrong things but I know I shouldn't do them, this is called obedience. Obedience is better than sacrifice. Not only pastors but everybody should preach pure and holy living no one is exempt from this. I am curious as to why you say you abstain from TV and certain movies because you know they maybe harmful to you yet still you view films like Black Hawk Down this is obviously contradicting. What are the prereqs for you not to view a particular program?
I do not think that pastor mark is advocationg particular movies (or atleast hope not) but rather trying to relate to those that like the same ones he does. Yet I do not agree with this I don't know wether he advises against it or not but being in leadership he might not want to leave himself open to that because he will be judged more severely because he teaches the Word. I look forward to more of your comments in the future.
Mark, I am enjoying these posts and hope that they will continue in the manner they are going. I have given much thought to the previous posts and do not want to get off track so to speak on other topics. I think it is safe to say that the general topic here is what we allow our spirits to be subjected to and that comes out of a depraved world i.e entertainment, inspiration, enjoyment and so on. I can understand your point of view mainly because I used to watch anything that I wanted, it didn't matter what it was because I was convinced that it was irrelevant what I put in my mind. In your original post you made a statement about how one should not feast on a diet of tv shows, morning dj programs and other forms of media that produced "bad" content. You even go as far to say "our mouth will spew out what our mind has chewed" but in your rebuttal you mention that "its not what goes into a man that makes him unclean its what comes out" and you coulndn't be more correct in agreeing with Jesus when he said that even though in context he was speaking of food but I challenge you to study that verse a little more closely. If you take that and apply it to Scripture metaphorically it doesn't support your point because it would conflict with numerous verses on the matter. (Pro 4:23, MAtt 12;35 15:18-19 these are just a few) Yet through out your statements you defend your stance on why you do what you advise not to do, this seems....hypocritical.
There is a great resemblence of what Jesus warned the Pharisee's about regardless of how small the issue might seem even though you justify your methods by "winning" people to Christ. I am not implying that you are phariseeical if that is even a word but you are not making your case clear as to why you advise people not to do what you yourself admit to doing. I seriouly doubt that Paul would go see films like BlackHawk Down, Saving Private Ryan, We Were Soliders and any other film laden with language of that manner regardless of how inspirational it may seem.
In my opinion I honestly doubt Paul would even be welcome at your Church or the majority of churches in America but our speculation is not important. The "church" today (in America) is lacking in power and hope you could prove otherwise but that is another issue altogether but believe that it is related to exactly what we are speaking about right now.
You speak hypothetically about a particular college kid going of to college, well I am that kid and have experienced all that you speak of and still disagree.
All wisdom does come from God but do not be decieved into thinking the wisdom you find in the world is the same as that of God 1 Cor 1:20 says God made the wisdom of the world foolishness Paul goes on to say in the next verse that THE WISDOM OF THE WORLD FAILED TO KNOW GOD. How then do you percieve that you can get the wisdom of God from the world when you cannot? If this was the case then we as believers would not be commanded to "come out of", "be seperate from" and "be not conformed too". We have not reicieved the spirit of the world but that which is of God (1Cor 2:12) so why look to the world for your "needs"?
If I were you I would be looking to what the world calls foolish to derive my inspiration from, chances are it would be more biblical than your approach of doing the opposite.(1 Cor 1:28). We lose generations when the church sits idlely by while the world consumes the masses, yes igonorance plays a part also but the real reason is our message. It is one that lacks power.
We lose generations when we speak empty and lifeless words backed by a lukewarm, worldly, compromising message. Mainly what is being preached from the pupits in America today. The reason churches have a huge gap is beacause they are and man-oriented and irrelevant in today's society, the very thing you are trying to be. Being like the world to win the world will only produce worldly Christians, which I do not even believe there is such a thing.
Jesus never became like the world and don't misintrpret Paul's words into becoming like world. If you were speaking truth at your seminars on the dangers of rock music than I doubt you were causing more harm than good occured unless your motive was that other than love.
As far as Don Wildman goes I am surprised because it sounds like you almost agree with what the world says about him. I see nothing that isn't unbiblical in his approach to the filth on TV that his ministry propagates. Do you not agree with him in trying to wage war on the media front? Do you think him irrelevant? On the contrary I believe the opposite and found his site to be biblically sound but I would not go as far as saying I am joining him tommorow for I only researched him a few days ago. The world hates him because he attackes that which is a product of the world and its system, he is waging war with pricipalities and powers of the air. Of course the world hates him he is oppossed to its system and wisdom this will mark any man a freak or fanatic. Jesus, the apostles, the saints of the Bible were labeled the same way. My question to you is why doesnt the world hate you or mark you? It hates me and I hate it but do not take that statement and run with it.
The battle I wage is spiritual but is expressed through the natural according to that of the Word of Life. I agree with you 100% in that the Christians are not known for their love BUT to love them is to tell the truth in love and they most likely will still hate you for that. Do I want to Howard Stern saved? Sure I would I rejoice anytime anyone repents and is born into God but I would not watch or listen to his shows to learn about him or to relate better, he is very anti-God and foul mouthed. I would speak to him like anyone I normally speak too.
You are naive in thinking Howard Stern is not the enemy in some aspect. Does the Bible not speak of the devil and evil spirits possessing persons? This does not give us reason to treat Stern with discontent or malice but let us be realistic. Satan is the ultimate enemy but you insist on pulling out inspiration and entertainment from that which is derived from our enemy, you give yourself too much credit.
I have read a good portion of "Velvet Elvis" and it was ok, I found nothing new in it. I have never read "Blue like Jazz" but will give it a go because of your recommendation. Moody, Ravenhill and Spurgeon spoke the WORD, to all generations. Why do you think you are reaching an ignorant generation? Nobody is preaching the Gospel they preach self-heIp non-sense. I preach open air and find myself amazed that the crowds know more than I do. Even one on one do I see the overall concensus is that people have a wide range of knowledge about the spiritual. 63% of America claims to have a personal relationship with Jesus, are you joking me? 83% of America believes in God.
I want to conclude in exhorting you to reevaluate your methods an motives concerning our conversation. Becareful just how close to the edge you get. Its easier to pull you down from an elevated postion than you to pull someone up, you need to be strong. I pray that the Lord helps you in not crossing too far over that line. I understand my comments may sound harsh to some for that I do not apologize. I only hope that God reveals the light that is in you to its fullest illumination. may God's grace be on you.
Well Mr...or Mrs...Anonymous,
It's obvious that we are both born again believers. As well as Josiah, who I know very well. It would be impossible for me to truly express who I am and how I operate in a few words...and I suppose the same is true of you. We are both probably making some level of assumptions about one another. Thank God for His Holy Spirit. Thank God we are no longer bound only by rules taught by men. I absolutely believe there are absolute right and wrongs....but I also believe the church I grew up in made a whole lot rules up for themselves. I really do trust Jesus and His Holy Spirit - through His Word to do the ultimate work of sanctification. If you knew me, heard me preach, you'd know I'm anything but a liberal jellyfish preacher. I spent about ten-years as a juvenile delinquent and another ten a cop- two years of that cleaning up the scraps of Satan's handiwork as a forensic detective. I'm very sincere in my rescue mission. I thank you for your prayers.
Now, as far as Don Wildman and others who spend a great deal of their resources cursing the darkness....I don't find biblical precidence for Christians who spend ministry resources to bash sinners? I'm sure Paul could of written a few extra books on how evil the Romans were, or the Cornthians. He addressed evil in the church, but I don't see him spewing hateful remarks from his pulpit---like say John Hagee. Oh that kind of preaching ALWAYS hits a homerun with the church-crowd. Yessiree! I could honestly make a living, especially in the south, travelling around to churches and preaching about the evils of the world. They'll AMEN me every time. But what if I took the Jesus approach and hung out with sinners then went to church with the sinners in tow and bashed the congregants for their religiosity? Where did Jesus lash out at the world for their wickedness? It seems to me He spent the majority of his ministry straightening out the religious folks.
That does not mean, I embrace the darkness. I am well aware of scriptures such as
2 Cor. 6:14
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?
And I could really get on that train. The word for "fellowship" there means a "partnership" or even goes as deep as "intercourse." I suppose the question we cannot easily answer is- What exactly constitutes that kind of relationship with the darkness? Here's where the Holy Spirit must do a work in each man's heart according to the measure of his faith.
Example: I have a friend who was raise in a very sheltered Christian environment. I was raised on the beach. I am not offended by going to the beach. There is nothing new under the sun there for me. I'm rather turned off by snotty little beach bunnies. I love the sun. I love the sand. I love the beach. My friend however, was quite embarrassed when I took him there. So, I took him to a more secluded family beach.
Now, I've heard preachers preach the evil of the beach. The beach isn't evil! I shouldn't do anything to make my brother stumble, but what is meat sacrificed to idols? That idol is just a piece of lifeless wood! (1 Cor 8)
Here's a great comment from Velvet Elvis: "if people were taught more about who they were, they wouldn't have to be told what to do. It would come naturally."
I choose to spend my time convincing people of who they are, who Christ is and who they are in Christ. That doesn't mean I don't engage in preaching holiness...but not so much in the context of running from evil rather- embracing Jesus and letting him swoo you deeper.
We could go sooooo deep into this defining of sin or what is compromising....say, let's not celebrate Christmas because it has pagan customs attached to it and we want to be so holy- separated unto God-- that we refuse to have a tree...what is a tree?
Or how about Easter---did you know the word easter comes from witchcraft and paganism? Did you know that the concept of the easter bunny existed before the Cross? The Emperor Constantine became a Christian and decided to Christianize something secular- the season of fertlity (hense the bunny) was changed to a time when we celebrate all that Jesus did for us.
So, should I write a book about how the church is going to hell in a handbasket over using a pagan name to label it's service Easter Sunday? Yet some preachers will preach about the evils of the bunny instead of the glory of the cross.
Should I act as if I don't ever watch anything evil and preach against the evils of evil in order to persuade the evil-doers to stop being evil? Then get busted picking up prostitues on the streets...like a certain preacher we all know?
Or should I be real and say, "Look, I live in your world. I occasionally watch what you watch and listen to what you listen to...I even get tempted in the areas you get tempted in...and guess what...Jesus is keeping me from falling."
The assumption you may be making is that I spend a great deal of time watching and listening to secular programming for the sake titillation. Not true. I applaud you for trying to draw me out of such a situation if if truly did exist.
What makes us lose generations is failing to be REAL. It is not real to ACT like we know all and we live so righteously. When we fail to CONNECT with people because our political persuasion speaks louder than the love of Christ. When we bash homosexuals in the media....which Jesus did not do...
we completely alienate them to our message. Yes, I know where "sodomy" gets its name...but I also know homosexuals are not my enemy. Christ died for them and might very well be found in a gay bar having a virgin-daquiri with one if that's what it took to save his soul. Yes, I think Jesus was labeled a wine-bibber by the Pharisees.
Billy Graham refused to preach against Mormonism, Jehovah's witness, even homesexuals...because he wanted their ears. I suppose I am more evangelist than pastor and hence my heart to keep people's ears.
I've been in church since I was an egg...except for several rebellious years as a teen. It was the Word of God...the logos and the rhema that eventually gripped my heart and brought me home....NOT a preacher defining every right and wrong for me. Church lost me in my teen years because they not only acted as if they were not of the world...they acted as if they weren't even in it. They failed to connect with me at all once I hit about 13. So, they preached they're irrelevant message, bored me to tears and I smoked pot out back the church. Yes, I know I'm saved today because of the word planted in me..so thank God for those preachers....BUT...they could've spared me some lost potential by connecting with my culture when I was a teen. Instead, they convinced I wasn't ready to make a decision to follow Christ because there was no way I could ever attain the level of righteousness they presented. That particular preacher was caught in an adulterous affair a couple of years later- he's a used car salesman in California now.
The truth of the world is indeed not real truth. My point was that God's truth...GOD'S truth...can be found in the world. It's found in secular movies, music, books and TV shows. Oh, it's usually distorted- grant it...but when Paul said that the their own poet had written "we are God's offspring," that was truth- he had their ears...then he went on to explain how the author defined God wrong. He didn't spend millions of dollars to distribute a newsletter or build a website informing the Christian church to steer clear of Greek poets. Ha! You must admit ANON...that is a good point!
Coincidentally, did you know there is a soldier in Saving Private Ryan that quotes scripture throughout? He constantly quotes Psalms- even when he's in battle? This makes an awesome connection- for how Christians can function and quote the word over their circumstances even in the heat of such a heinous war.
I am curious as to what you do in ministry. I have had my finger on the pulse of youth and young adults since I was a youth and young adult. I'm not boasting, I just have a harder time heeding the opinion of people who aren't directly on the playing field. You know what I mean I'm sure.
Thanks again for the fun! I'm sure we're both ingesting some level of fresh perspective that will somehow end up bringing glory to God and growth to His kingdom.
Proverbs 27:17
As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
Mark
I remain anonymous because I don’t feel my identity is of any relevance but I will tell you who I am at a later time. You know me and I know you. I find it somewhat amusing so I will continue to remain “unknown” bum….bum.bum…..bum. I have heard you preach many times so I am familiar with your personality and so forth. I do not believe I assuming a great deal but rather pretty close in my knowing you, after all, l I have known you for a while. Since you continue to interject comments I will make my remarks.
I believe the term “bash sinners” is not an accurate phraseology in describing what it is to speak truth. To the world, truth is very painful and many perceive a legitimate conversation, like normal people, you shoving the Gospel down their throat. There’s no way to soften the blow, it will the majority of times hurt and their reaction to that hurt is crucial to their being drawn by the Lord. Sure I can hang out with drunks (and have) and play pool with some shady individuals (many times) and even drink a cold one now and again (nope never gone that far) to gain someone’s soul. I have worked with many homosexuals and even hung out those guys too but am I not “cursing the darkness”. I often find that just being honest and kind is all the realness you need. Jesus on many occasions spoke to the Pharisee’s very harshly, I would even go as far to say that he bashed them and they were sinner’s just ones under the guise of Christianity. Paul didn’t have to write books on how evil the Romans were because all the Christians already knew, they lived in Rome! Forget about John Hagee he is a false teacher because he believes that Jews are not in need of Jesus, that they already have a covenant relationship with God and that is enough.
After doing a little digging I will agree Don Wildmon is one to steer clear from and not to give heed to his words, there is another agenda there with that man. Yet once again you assume that by associating with sinners Jesus engaged in their simplicities or habits of a neutral nature. Jesus was labeled a winebibber by hypocritical Pharisee’s but we know from Matt 26:29 that he did not even drink wine. He was a Nazarite. (study it if you don’t know what that is) If I call you a drug dealer do you use that as reason to go deal drugs? No because you are not a drug dealer. Jesus never lashed out at the world but he did preach repentance, are you preaching anything other than what Jesus did? I wasn’t aware that we were talking about being yoked with unbelievers so I will leave that one alone. I will say IN context, Paul was referring to marriage not friendship. I mean who are you going to have intercourse with? C’mon.
I believe you exercised good judgment by taking your friend to a secluded part of the beach…nice job! Your right the beach isn’t evil so stop using asinine examples from legalistic preachers.
In my experience with the “Relevant” movement and studying it there are two main problems that arise. The first and this is from experience going to a “seeker-sensitive” church, is that it promotes a watered-down view of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The word “seeker-sensitive” doesn’t even make any sense because there are none that seek after God, no not one! (Rom 3:11)
Rob Bell is wrong in his assumption in “if people were taught more about who they were, they wouldn’t have to be told what to do, and it would come naturally”. You don’t have to teach people who they are, they are naturally evil that is why we have to relearn everything after putting our faith in Christ and repenting besides the Holy Ghost should be the main teacher. All things have become new the old is passed away, remember that one. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that’s a good one. How is it your mind is being renewed when you go back to the old way of doing things? (movies) People do need to be told what to do because they are dumb as sheep. No body is good and ever will be, apart from the Holy Ghost manifested through that individual bearing good fruit. The second problem is that the result from the first problem leads to a false Christian experience.
You and I both know what sin is and I don’t think we need to redefine it either, especially to suit our flesh. Mark celebrating Christmas or Easter is not going to send someone to hell.
“Should I act as if I don't ever watch anything evil and preach against the evils of evil in order to persuade the evil-doers to stop being evil? Then get busted picking up prostitutes on the streets...like a certain preacher we all know?” I will answer your question to the best of my ability. You shouldn’t act as if you don’t watch anything evil, you should just do it. I am not sure about the preaching against the evil of evils part. Yes you should persuade men to depart from evil (Psa 34:14: 37:27, Prov 3:7; 16:6, 17)
You say “Or should I be real and say, "Look, I live in your world. I occasionally watch what you watch and listen to what you listen to...I even get tempted in the areas you get tempted in...and guess what...Jesus is keeping me from falling." I would say “I live in the same world you live in, know what is on TV and radio and even get tempted in the same areas you get tempted in…and guess what…Jesus keeps me from falling.” I do not assume you watch spend a great deal of time watching what ever it is you advise not to watch. Of course we don’t have all the answers but I hope you don’t believe to live righteously is not living “real”, you would be anti-scriptural in this perception. Our reality is to live righteously and any other life outside of this is meaningless. (1 John 2:29) I am not sure how we bash gays in the media and I doubt Jesus would be in a gay bar. Do not even get me started about Billy Graham and yes that was a good point. Would you study the satanic bible to witness to a Satanist?
I myself have been in youth ministry 10+ years but have not been involved in the past three but the burden will always be there. I often preach in public places in addition to one on one witnessing you can’t get any closer on the field than that. I also play in a worship band on the side. I will say you have been in youth ministry longer than me. Still wondering who I am?
Later man…
You asked:
Would you study the satanic bible to witness to a Satanist?
At Mars Hill Paul looked attentively --to look again---at their objects of worship.
anatheoreo, an-ath-en-o-reh'-o; from Greek 303 (ana) and Greek 2334 (theoreo); to look again (i.e. attentively) at (literal or figurative) :- behold, consider.
On my book shelf I have a copy of the Book of Mormon, Mary Eddy Baker's Science & Health (Christian Science), the Jehovah's Witness Bible, and the Necronomicon, Marylin Manson's biography and several books from Christian authors on cults. I have also read portions of the Satanic Bible. I feel obligated to know my foe. So, would I "study it"...maybe that's a little deep, would I read it..attentively...yes. If I were going to be a missionary in any country I would learn about their religious beliefs...why wouldn't I do that in America?
I think Rob Bell's comment...which was actually a restatement from someone else...was directed toward convincing Christians of who they are in Christ. When a person is convinced of their worth they take interest in what's being wasted by compromise.
A while back you used the term "shallow Christianity," perhaps you could give us the defintion of "deep Christianity?"
Happy to Amuse!
PM
I don't think I would study it but like yourself have read portions of it and found it to be the opposite of Scripture. I have witnessed to a few satanists.
I myself have a copy of the book of mormon, a few books on the occult and have read marilyn manson's biography. That guy is jacked up because of the church. I believe we shouldn't be ignorant of the enemy's wiles and schemes but I wouldnt go to the length of pursuing truth in the darkness OR what could be considered darkness.
I get what Rob was saying.
shallow christianity is that of our "great" nation right now. millions claim to be filled with the spirit but I fail to see the reality of that. Don't get me wrong I am not some spiritual pessimist but I tend to look at the reality of the way things are.
If I had to define what "deep" christianty would be I think we would be talking about the power to impact lives, to have true influence, even power to perform miracles and signs through faith. I can't honestly look at mainstream christianity or the american church and be pleased with what I see or say "wow I want that". There is too much talk and not enough walk. so the question then becomes how do you change it from the inside out? Is being "relevant" the answer? I think not. Yes we are to be relevant but I think you are striving to be relevant. If you were a cop then you already know what sort of things go on. you have first hand knowledge about things that others would cringe at but is it truly neccesary to lose our saltiness in order to taste better?
What do you consider "shallow" christianity to be?
Shallow Christianity is a Christianity that has a form of godliness but denies the power thereof, that bears no fruit, where no one gets saved and transformed, that forgets the poor and spends its money on broadcasting an ear-tickling message, that makes a big deal about the outside of the cup and dish when the inside is filthy, that forgets the importance of the local church, that fails to fulfil the Great Commission with all its might, ....it's more often what people are failing to do rather than the sins they entangle themselves in.
There are life giving churches emerging where the greatest miracle is salvation. These are churches being founded by a younger generation looking for REALITY Christianity...not escapism.
OH!! You stabbed yourself with your own point in a way. You accused me of preaching one thing then promoting another...i.e. Defeating the Monster Within...then my movie list as a contradiction. You came back and agreed the beach isn't necessarily a sinful place for everyone. Hence, one man's recreation might be monster food for another. There are absolutes...but there are also matters of conscience. I Corinthians 8 & 9 explain that thoroughly.
My hunch says this might be s.h. from MA? Anyway, it's been fun, feel free to get the ball rolling on any of my posts. I love when more than one viewpoint is presented.
Blessings.
PM
First I will respond to the original blog. Pastor Mark this is excellent advice for all of us. I too love reading. I have learned so much by reading I recognize its value. I read for knowledge, for fun, for school, and many other reasons. I learned to read at a very young age and I haven’t stopped since. I have too many books and barely enough time to read them all. I estimate that I have around 140 books not counting textbooks. At least 45 of those are on spiritual topics. I have a large number of biographies and other historical works. My fiction collection is Tom Clancy, John Grisham and various other authors. I know a used bookstore where I can get books 5 for a $1. It’s a bibliophiles dream come true. I also read a daily newspaper and that’s how I keep up with news and what’s happening in my country and the entire world. In my vehicle when I’m not listening to music or preaching and teaching I’m listening to a book. I love reading and writing and I would rather write a 5 page essay in English class than take a single page math test. I would rather take a 200 level English course than algebra 1.
I believe every Christian should study to show themselves approved unto God by reading and studying His written word. They should also not forget to spend even more time with the living Word. We are called to love God with our minds and that means using it to learn as well as protecting it. I do keep books everywhere. In my car, at the table, by my bed and all over my shelves. God wants us to have faith like a child, but to have the maturity of an adult.
“It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.” (Ephesians 4:11-16). These gifts are to mature the believers in Christ that they may grow strong and mature.
Anonymous, I love the way you put the way we cast off the weight and sin that besets us. Sin comes about when we pick up the things of this world and because we tolerate that weight. I have heard both Pastor Mark and our senior pastor warn against desensitizing ourselves especially in the name of entertainment. As I go through life I pick up inspiration and knowledge wherever I find it. I don’t seek it in the cesspool though. I haven’t always made the best choices when it comes to movies and music, but I seek to protect my mind and heart from profane influences. You have brought up a good point when you ask if Paul would have viewed some of these movies. I have always shunned movies with sexual activity because I know what tempts me and where my weaknesses lie. I haven’t felt the same about war movies. I have always been fascinated by warfare and weapons and that is still part of me. Especially when I was in high school I read countless books about WWII and modern warfare. Then I discovered fiction writers who weaved my interests with an engaging story. You could say that I was familiar with the subject when I watched these movies. I’m pretty sure the first one I saw was Saving Private Ryan. I don’t remember the blood and guts or their language. I remember the men who gave their all. And most of all I remember the American coward who failed to act as a German stabbed his fellow soldier to death. That is what disgusted me in that movie. I hated that scene because of the indecision and cowardice of that man. It made me resolve to never be that way in my spiritual and physical life. This is what I do whether I am watching a movie or reading Greek poetry. I look for ways to use it later. I don’t use this as an excuse for watching movies, its part of the way I think. I am discerning in my entertainment choices. I would say that I have watched fewer than 40 R rated movies in my lifetime. A number of them I watched when I didn’t care about obeying God. Watching movies like this is the exception rather than the norm for me. I have occasionally used movies to make points when teaching Sunday School. I have used quotes from Chariots of Fire and Kingdom of Heaven. I used an R rated movie that some of my students had seen to show that the Christianity of the Crusaders was actually nothing of the sort.
Pastor Mark, you used to do seminars on the dangers of rock music. You have also preached against secular music. I don’t know what your method was, but I doubt you did much harm. I can speak from experience because a couple years ago I had a large secular music collection. Not only secular, but some of it was profane. God convicted me about listening to garbage, but I had to hear it from you several times before I acted. Secular doesn’t always mean dangerous. I’m glad you see that there are some songs written by secular artists that can inspire others. That is true; Howard Stern and the rest of the human race are not our enemies. They may stand against Christianity, decency, class, and morality, but it is their ideas and the power behind them that is our enemy. Just as demonic forces are behind idols (1 Corinthians 10:18-20) it is the power of perversion that we should oppose because our war is spiritual.
Many years ago my father would go around with a preacher to college campuses, churches and the like to present Truth, Soul, and RocknRoll. I recently found an old cassette tape of this and I listened to it. They pointed out how spiritual many of the singers and lyrics are. And while on the topic of hell, sin, and spirituality they would present the Gospel. They used the Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, AC DC etc. in presenting Jesus. They reached out by using popular culture and in the end played one of the preacher’s favorite songs and made a call for repentance. Unfortunately the song he played could not compare to the secular music, it wasn’t even Keith Green or something heavy like him. Anyway it is possible to carefully use things that hold the world’s interest to prepare them to hear the gospel.
Yes, Savedone we choose to live righteously or we choose to live in the world. However it is not our ability to keep His commandments or to keep from sinning that saves us. It is Jesus and His blood. their was a time with the way I viewed God and how I thought He saw me, that rules and prohibitions and standards were attractive to me. At times I still want to judge others for their clothes or for their entertainment choices. I have realized that watching fewer R rated movies and avoiding TV doesn't make me better than anyone else. My temptations and sins are in other areas. The blood of Christ comes so cheap when it comes by your ability to keep from sinning. I realize that my efforts cannot save me and that salvation is not a revolving door that I walk in and out of with every sin.
I had a friend who told me things like this, “I would rather do too much than worry about not doing enough” or ‘I would rather error in judgment as being too much in the "God bubble" than not.” These sound good, I mean is God going to say welcome my good and faithful servant, you worked too hard you should have taken some time off and relaxed? No He won‘t say that. This argument basically says that the blood of Jesus might not be enough; therefore I will do all these things to make sure I am saved.
He also won’t say “welcome, you worked hard enough to enter My kingdom.” This argument says that you can earn salvation by doing a list of things. Remember these three of the five Solas Solo Christo - Salvation is by Christ alone. Sola Gratia - Salvation is by grace of God alone. Sola Fide - Salvation is by faith alone. As I wrote this I was listening to Jennifer Knapp and this song came on A Little More. The lyrics are
“A little more than I can give,
a little more than I deserve.
On earth this holiness I can't earn, It's a,
little more than I can give, A little more than I deserve.
For all the sin that lives in me,
it took a nail to set me free still,
what I do I don't wanna do and so goes the story.
What you had in mind,
When we seek we'll find shine show me grace.”
Anonymous, there are many posts here under that banner. Are they all yours? I believe that more people than just you use that on here. You can put a name down without making an account. I have been looking over past posts and I was wondering which ones were yours. About my friend and her holiness church it is relevant because I learned that watching less TV and following a plethora of rules doesn’t make me less of a sinner or more of a Christian.
I wasn’t saying this because I thought you were saying that we can attain perfection. I was showing that taking the censoring of ones movie choices to the extreme of never watching movies or TV does not make a better Christian. I was pointing out that they were no holier than you and I despite the professed lack of TV. Every attempt on our part to attain holiness will fail. Our holiness, our righteousness only comes through the blood of Jesus.
Yes, I am familiar with the teachings of Jesus and I agree that being bombarded with temptation is never an excuse to give in. I was not using that as an excuse to sin, I was pointing out that no matter how much we isolate ourselves, Satan always has a toehold in our lives because of our flesh. My flesh will seek its own desires as long as I have a mortal body. Is hearing somebody use foul language a sin? Or is the sin using it myself? I suppose I don’t have to watch a movie to learn what happened during these wars. I could just read the book. And I have done this in the case of We Were Soldiers. I don’t think you can compare a dramatic recreation of U.S. history to pornography. I have heard the term “snuff” film, but I just thought it was another term for porn. It is “a pornographic movie or video that allegedly ends with the murder of one of the participants in a sex act” That is too disgusting to even think about, but again I don’t think it compares to an historical event being reenacted.
Am I deceived into thinking I can take from the world what ever I choose and use it to benefit from? Truth does exist outside of Christianity, but it is only a shadow of the real thing. Satan knows how to mix enough truth into his lies to deceive billions around the world. I have seen and then used movies to drive home a biblical truth. God has placed eternity in the hearts of men and we can use their culture to show it to them. The search for love, significance, meaning and spirituality all show the voids in the hearts of mankind.
I meant to say that those specific war movies did not attract me for entertainment purposes. I was not clear in that statement. I watched LOTR mainly for fun and Napoleon Dynamite was definitely for laughs. I watched Saving Private Ryan mainly because of all the reviews that said it was the best portrayal of WWII in the movies ever. Because of my fascination with all things military it attracted me to it. We Were Soldiers was for history and an adrenaline rush. I would recommend those movies only to someone who wants to see war in all its hell. I have a book on my shelf about the Chosin Reservoir campaign in Korea. If a movie about it came out this summer there is a good chance I would rent it when it comes out. No serving the Lord is not boring. It is the greatest adventure of all. To live a life like Paul, full of preaching, teaching, writing, and learning about God is what I aspire to. That is my dream my future and what I am doing right now. When I said “I don't live in an enemy occupied country like Paul did.” I was referring to the Romans. I realize that Satan is the god of this world. The people of the time were used to seeing Roman soldiers all over the place. I learn about the military from books and occasionally movies. If you know nothing of warfare and weapons Ephesians 6:10-18 will mean little to you. Yes, I do know who I am fighting. It is Satan and all sin.
I try to be discriminating in my media choices, but I don’t believe the movies we are talking about caused me to sin. I avoid TV because there is very little programming I would want to watch. TV is something that would drag me in and suck away my time. I know that if I start to watch it is hard to stop. It is experience, upbringing and conviction that keep me away from it. I do watch more movies. I do have criteria. I will not watch nudity, or sexually themed movies, I will not watch gratuitous violence or profanity. I will not watch movies that would tempt me to sin. From what I have read those movies portrayed what actually happened. It was not for shock value. You mentioned that you watch TV almost every day. I presume that you screen what you consume.
I don’t watch these to win others to Christ. Immersing oneself in this sinful culture to attempt to change it will never work. The Jesuits said that the ends justified the means and they mixed the beliefs of the cultures they were missionaries to into Catholicism. In Mexico and many other South American cultures you will find the native religions mixed into a perversion of Christianity. It is dark, dangerous and hostile to the true gospel. God called the Israelites to change the world around them, but they usually conformed to it.
The message of repentance has never grown old but it is excluded from many sermons and churches. It has been replaced by a self help, feel good message for itching ears and by a form of godliness. One third of the world population is supposedly Christian. Yeah right. If they were I believe we would be changing the world for Jesus much more than we are. It’s sad how many people especially Americans think that they are going to enter Heaven for many other reasons besides the blood of Jesus.
This is so true, “What makes us lose generations is failing to be REAL” When people see us having to manipulate their emotions with fear to get them saved are they going to stay? They may say a sinner’s prayer, but will it mean anything? Trying to scare people with hell instead of preaching love to draw them to God is not going to work. It is the kindness of God that leads us to repentance (Romans 2:4).
Pastor Mark when you pointed out that “when Paul said that their own poet had written "we are God's offspring," that was truth- he had their ears...then he went on to explain how the author defined God wrong.” That inspired me because that’s what I try to do. I don’t seek darkness to warn others away I take the dim light from the way it has been distorted and I blow it into full strength by introducing pure, unadulterated truth and love.
Anonymous I don’t think you can say that the Pharisees were “sinner’s just ones under the guise of Christianity.” Under the guise of children of Abraham yes, I think that’s what you meant. Did Jesus bash them? Bashing is defined as “To engage in harsh, accusatory, threatening criticism” He didn’t tolerate their hypocrisy and legalism. So at least to them it was bashing. But is Jesus harsh? Accusatory? Threatening? No, but He did tell the painful truth
Jesus was not a Nazarite. He was called a Nazarene because He came from Nazareth. His followers before they were kicked out of the Synagogues and labeled as Christians were called Nazarenes because they followed Him. The vow of a Nazarite involved these three things, (1) abstinence from wine and strong drink, (2) refraining from cutting the hair off the head during the whole period of the continuance of the vow, and (3) the avoidance of contact with the dead. There is no record in scripture of Jesus taking the Nazarite vow. On the contrary a Nazarite could not have used any product of the vine, and thus Jesus could not have instituted the Lord's Supper if he had been a Nazarite. For in this, he used the fruit of the vine. If He had been a Nazarite, He could not have touched the open coffin of the dead man in Luke 7:11-16. Or He could not have touch Jairus’s daughter to bring her back to life. On the subject of wine He said He would not take it again until He was with the disciples in His Fathers kingdom in Matt 26:29. John the Baptist was a Nazarite from birth, but Jesus never was.
I am all for learning the belief systems of others so you can present the gospel in a manner they will understand and so you can dialogue in an intelligent manner. Paul did exactly this. How did he know what the Greek poets said? He may have heard someone else quoting it, or probably he read it on his own. He sought to understand his audience by walking around the city to see what they worshiped and what captivated them. Then he could formulate a way to reach them as a distinct culture. He reached out with a small truth that a Greek poet had mentioned and then he brings forth a sermon based on their deep involvement with idols and their worship.
I have spent many hours reading about and studying world religions. I don’t believe I am immune to the enemy's vices and snares, but I know that through Christ I am. I study these for many reasons. I am interested in apologetics, I use this knowledge to witness, and I use it to show other Christians why they should follow Jesus instead of Mohammed or Buddha etc. I have spent time studying Satan’s false religions and yet I am even more secure in my belief that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. It is possible to look at something in this world and take away a valuable lesson from it. I too own a copy of the Book of Mormon, and the Jehovah's Witness Bible and several books from Christian authors on these and other false religions. Do I study in depth the enemies’ books? No, but my plan is to go though and highlight the scriptures that I can use to point them to the full truth instead of the distortion they are peddling door to door. I was familiar with the way the Jehovah’s Witness Bible looks and in Sunday School one day I noticed that the Bible one of my students had was the New World Translation. I recognized the map in the back as the young girl looked at it. I asked to see the book and confirmed my suspicions. I explained what it was and showed how John 1:1 obviously contradicted a real Bible. She was surprised and said that she would get rid of it. Knowledge of something that could deceive and destroy led me to help someone.
Christians do need to be convinced of who they are and what is available to us. If there is no growth it is barely above shallow Christianity where the self is the focus. So many people are taught that the Christian walk is just about getting saved. A beautiful relationship has been reduced to getting introduced.
What I find interesting is that men like Charles Finney, and C.H. Spurgeon are mentioned together on this blog. The people that hold to their teachings will have little to do with each other. Finney is a heretic according to the Calvinists like Spurgeon or today’s John Macarthur. Wigglesworth was disliked by those in and out of the church. We could argue endlessly over doctrinal statements and what is dangerous. I see that all of these preachers had a large impact on their culture and on ours by preaching salvation to mankind. One would say that God ordained the elect to salvation; another would say that God saves all those who call upon Him. I read and learn from a great many preachers even if I don’t agree with every little point of their teaching. Discussion like this is valuable and it challenges us to think about what we believe and why we do what we do. There is never any harm in that.
This has been long and I am done with this post. I will be back soon. I have enjoyed this and it’s encouraged me. Peace be with you
Josiah
I might be out of order in reference to your comments so bear with me. That was a very long post.
I stand corected on Jesus being a Nazarite. I am glad to see your diligence in rightly dividing the Word unlike myself...well done. I applaude you in your efforts to continue to learn apologetics and if I might recommend a book by Ravi Zacharius called "Jesus among other gods"
I enjoyed the statement you made that "secular doesn't always mean dangerous", this is a good observation and "Christians do need to be convinced of who they are and what is available to us. If there is no growth it is barely above shallow Christianity where the self is the focus. So many people are taught that the Christian walk is just about getting saved. A beautiful relationship has been reduced to getting introduced". This is very well thought out...bravo (I might even use it, I hope you don't have it copywrited)
I don't believe God has placed eternity in the hearts of men. Could you elaborate a little?
Calling the Pharisee's "sinner's" is a safe play I think. Anytime Jesus calls you "childern of satan" you have to raise an eyebrow.
Paul did say "were by knowing the terror of the Lord we persuade men..." (2 Cor 5:11)I would'nt try to "scare" anybody into hell, I believe thats manipulation.
Don't be surprised to find Finney and Spurgeon on the same blog. Both did mighty things. Finney brought revival and Spurgeon was, in many opinions, one of the greatest preachers ever. I recommend you read their biographies.
I must say I could have used some of your comments in getting my view across earlier. I am refreshed to see a well rounded individual such as your self and enjoy listening to your thoughts.
If you read my posts I think you can figure out which ones are mine. I bet if you thought about it you could figure out who I am. By the way Josiah how is your family doing?
Mark when will the Verge web site be up again?
peace out peeps
I changed my name to mr. e
I should have mentioned that in the last post.
We're in the process of mapping out a site that will incorporate all three ministries of the Verge.
JOSIAH...if you don't become a professor and a writer I think the Lord's gonna be pretty ticked.
Mr. e, here's the elaboration you were looking for:
Eccles. 3:11
He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end.
I also want to send you ...Mr e and Josiah...a link to a sermon on our topic of discussion from one of Ravi Zacharius's protege's. I'm waiting for someone to send me the link and I'll post it here.
PM
Ah good verse but let me clarify myself in my statement concerning Ecc 3:11. I don't believe there is anyone who seeks after God willingy apart from the Father drawing them. (John 6:44) I don't think I would use this verse to contradict that statement rather I see your point in using this verse and glad you pointed it out.
I still don't see how I "stabbed myself" you kind of lost me there.
Stabbed may be a harsh word...I try to be a creative writer.
What I was saying is that you agreed there are matters of conscience...i.e.- whether going to the beach is a sin. For some it is, for others it doesn't necessarily defile.
In an early post- you accused me of "wallowing in the mud," "defiling myself" and advising people not to feed on junk yet doing the same myself.
What you were doing is trying to define what sin is for me. Few could walk away from the movies I mentioned and feel defiled. These are not "junk" movies full of gratuitous violence and sex. These are movies of heroism and sacrifice with many biblical attributes. According to me.
Someone else might have a completely different opinion. For them it might be sin- though I find that difficult to believe- most of those movies will break your heart, bring you tears and make you ask yourself how much you're sacrificing for what you believe in.
You seemed to be doing what I percieve as a very legalistic thing- labeling right and wrong for eveyone according to your personal convictions, something that has driven a generation away from the church.
As I said earlier, the Christian fathers of 100 years ago did miraculous things and we stand on their shoulders. But this is a very different world. I don't know the last time you walked a high school hall, or a college campus, but you might be amazed at how few young people have any biblical literacy at all. We've got to start where they are...as with Paul at Mars Hill...and lead them to the truth.
Rob Bell redefines the term "binding and loosing" from a contextual perspective and we find it has nothing to do with the demonic deliverance with which it has often been associated. Rather, it has to do with the binding and losing of religious traditions and biblical truths by rabbis as they relate to a particular community, culture or time in history.
An example might be that long hair in the 60's would have had the appearance of sin because it was immediately associated with the hippie movement. Today, it would be ridiculous to preach against long hair.
Another example- during the days of Finney- repentance was the message to be loosed and yes, repentance is always a message to be preached...but Finney was called to loose it in a dynamic way to bring the backslider home. He was a radical by the way....in the book Revivals in Religion he went out his way to point out how ridiculous it was for the church to condemn choirs, fiddles and new music...which they were labeling as sinful.
I believe the Lord is loosing a new thing in the earth in our day, for our generation...and yes we need to proceed with caution and always be accountable. But we've got to stop this nonsense of pointing out the specifics of the sinner's sin and rather point out that we are indeed sinners and need a Savior. Too many preachers have spent too much of the Lord's time and money cursing the darkness instead of being the light.
One misperception might be that I watched the movies on my movie list for the sake of being relevant. In reality, I read Wild at Heart by John Eldredge and began to realize just how much this generation has robbed men of what it means to be a man. So believe it or not my friend, my 12 year old son watched those movies with me so he could see that real men bled and died for the freedom we so richly enjoy. That Christian men can fight for their country and still maintain their faith- as in the sniper from Saving Private Ryan. I don't ever want him to look at an old man with with a pin-decorated veterans hat the same again. I want him to understand the true meaning of Memorial Day, July 4th and Veteran's Day.
If you could walk away from any of the movies on my list feeling defiled. I would consider your faith to be that of the weak mentioned in 1 Cor. 8. And if I have offended you...for that I apologize.
I suppose that's why there are so many different churches eh? I'm sure there will be Amish in heaven as well a Catholic or two....and maybe even an Episcopal....the Baptists?...now that's another story. (joking of course)
Thanks again to all of you guys for joining the discussion.
PM
Here's the link to message by Ravi's partner..it's called Unchanging Truth in Unchanging Times."
http://www.rzim.org/radio/archives.php?p=JT&v=detail&id=474
maybe my faith is weak or maybe I just have diffrent convictions but you didn't offend me. I doubt if anyone could cause its not about me.
Josiah, I believe you might have misunderstood what I was talking about. We are definitly unable to keep the law. That is the reason for salvation. We are saved through grace, for without grace we would all be reserving a place by the fire. The point I was trying to make, and obviously not too well is that we have to work out our salvation daily with fear the trimbling. One of the hardest things I had to learn was that just because I said some prayer at an alter call gave me free reign to do as I wished and still enter in. We are required to live a holy and pure life. As a person that is a christian or Christ like, we are not in the position to do other. There was a saying that became popular not long ago, What Would Jesus Do. I have a WWJD piece that sits on my bookshelf. I believe the statement should be What Did Jesus Do. If we study His life and His actions, we cannot go wrong. I am not attempting to earn my way into heaven, because I cannot. But there is a time when grace does not cover our sin's of commission. Read Heb. 11 starting at vs 19. You may not think that seeing movies that are full of foul language is sin. I happen to disagree. When I mention the "shall nots", I was refering to taking the Lords name in vain. You see Josiah, the mind is the greatest computer ever made. Everything that goes in, stays in. If you watch something or listen to something that does not gratify God or the things of God, it will be there for the enemy to use when we are at our weakest. I spent a career in the military, over 20 years, and I can tell you, Black Hawk Down is not a true representation of what military life is all about. If you want know about military life, there are many VA hospitals and military bases in your area. Go there and talk to the people that spent their lives giving to their country. Not rely on what Hollywood depicts as true.
I started watching Black Hawk Down one day and had to change the channel. As a Christ like individual, I will not sit and listen to someone take my God's name in vain just to try to learn about heroism. If you are willing to do that, do as I did many years ago. Ask God!! He will let you know. If you have no doubt, then go for it. But if doubt exist, something is not right.
You sound like a young man that is really seeking after God. Do not take my comments as someone that thinks he has it all together. I am just a sinner saved by grace attempting to pass on what I have learned along my journey.
There are other things we could discuss, i.e. the prayer of salvation - is it biblical. Or how about the one pastor church of today - can you show me that in the Bible. Just a couple of things to make you think.
Be blessed my brother, and keep strong in the faith.
In His Grip
Mr. R.e?
lol...you got me!
I'm having lunch with SG next week. I'll let him know you've become quite the defender of the faith.
Send me an email at vergelife@aol.com if you aren't already in the verge loop.
hey keep me and few guys in prayer as we go out during mardi gras and do worship and witness. I hope its not a rough crowd
savedone said,"I AM JUST A SINNER SAVED BY GRACE." I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE NOR AM I A BIBLE WIZARD. BUT THIS I DO KNOW, I AM NOT JUST AN OLD SINNER SAVED BY GRACE!!!! I HAVE BEEN WASHED IN THE BLOOD OF JESUS, BOUGHT WITH A PRICE, REDEEMED. MY OLD, DEAD SPIRIT HAS PASSED AWAY AND HAS BECOME NEW. I HAVE LIFE. I AM THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS. I AM AN HEIR OF HEAVEN AND ALL OF ITS GLORY. I AM HOLY BECAUSE HE IS HOLY. I AM FORGIVEN. I AM A LIGHT IN THIS DARK WORLD. THOUGH I STILL HAVE A FLESHLY BODY THAT LIKES TO DO FLESHLY THINGS DOES NOT MAKE ME AN OLD SINNER... I AM A DISCIPLE OF JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!
Thank you one and all for your comments and constructive criticisms. I did not mean to take so long in responding but I have been very busy lately.
Mr. E Thank you for your kind comments I’m glad you found some of them useful. I do have access to Jesus among the other gods. I hold Ravi Zacharias in high esteem and his writings have influenced me and informed me. I had the opportunity to hear him speak for the C.S. Lewis Institute a little over a year ago. He is my role model as an apologist and I listen to him often.
I’m glad you liked this comment of mine, “Christians do need to be convinced of who they are and what is available to us. If there is no growth it is barely above shallow Christianity where the self is the focus. So many people are taught that the Christian walk is just about getting saved. A beautiful relationship has been reduced to getting introduced.” Although it is not all mine. When I wrote that it was with passion and a desire to see this beautiful relationship come to life in the life of every human being.
You can use it all you want, I want more and more people to see this and seek Him. I came to this conclusion by listening to preachers and parishioners. However the Bible teaching the heart of God for this and a preacher by the name of Darin Hufford helped me a great deal.
Mark already showed where eternity in their hearts came from. It does not contradict the fact that people cannot find God without His help. It can be seen in the actions of this world. Look at how many are searching for truth, for something to believe in. Look at all the other religions around us and the people seeking eternal security. These thoughts and desires are expressed by the heart but the heart of man is deceitful and will mislead all. The need and desire is there, now as ministers of reconciliation we are to show the way to God and eternity.
I did not object to Jesus calling the Pharisee’s sinners, children of Satan or “sons of hell” (Matthew 23:15). I wondered why you called them, ““sinner’s just ones under the guise of Christianity.” I don’t see what they had to do with Christianity.
I have no problem with hell and preaching the judgment of God. But what I hear in many sermons is fear and manipulation. Pastor Mark I remember one sermon probably 1½-2 years ago where you asked a rhetorical question and said something along these lines. Am I trying to manipulate your emotions and persuade you to follow Christ? Yes I am, because I want to see you saved. Not your exact wording but it struck me and I remembered it. At the time I didn’t really think it was a wrong because people might get saved. We are called to warn, persuade, and reason with the lost, but manipulation has no place there. That is ascribing the character of Satan to the heart of God.
I am not surprised to find Finney and Spurgeon on the same blog. I see them mentioned together just about any time great preachers are mentioned. I said it was interesting and I then pointed out that we may have some differences but we can still expand the kingdom without becoming uncivil towards each other. I was saying that is what I see here. Healthy discussion and encouragement with a common goal becoming more like Jesus. I have read some of their own words and I have read a lot about them. I will be reading their biographies sonner or later.
Yes I can figure out what posts are yours Mr. E. Thank you for asking about my family. My family is doing well. There are four of us in college right now and my parents are coping well. I will probably be transferring to Southeastern University in Fl. I believe that you live somewhere down there. It would be good to see you again. I am also greatly interested in street evangelism I have kept you in prayer ever since your request. I pray that you and yours are blessed.
Pastor Mark in our church it would be ridiculous to preach against long hair, but in some other churches it is not so far fetched. I have read and heard about entire sermons devoted to hair and 1 Cor 11 and the standards it puts forth. There are still people who want to live in the 60’s or the early 1900’s culture.
Yes, I agree that “too many preachers have spent too much of the Lord's time and money cursing the darkness instead of being the light.” How many of us cheered during the Carmen song “God In America Again” when he speaks these lyrics When it gets to the point the people would rather come out of the closet than clean it, it is the sign that the judgment of God is going to fall. I know I cheered and my church did also. It sounds good to our ears, but why should we cheer the destruction of the lost? You will always get more cheers and amen’s in church when you speak about the wrath of God than when you mention His love. There is a relationship between the people of the world and the church that needs to be restored. It is a relationship where we reach out with love, compassion, kindness, and care.
Savedone, I need you to restate several things for me. It seems that you are stating two opposing viewpoints. One you say “that we have to work out our salvation daily with fear the trimbling.” And that “there is a time when grace does not cover our sin's of commission.” You reference Hebrews 11:19- but this talks about how faith saved all these men and women. Then you say that “One of the hardest things I had to learn was that just because I said some prayer at an alter call gave me free reign to do as I wished and still enter in” Are you saying that sin committed after you have been washed clean will or will not keep you from heaven?
Again I ask is hearing profanity sin? I hear it at work and at school. I don’t have the problem, they do. I will not shun people who sometimes swear or I would never be able to talk with many non-Christians and some Christians. I do try to avoid gratuitous and profane babblings both with humans and movies. When I saw Black Hawk Down in the theater it was with a stolen pass. I wasn’t concerned about the language in the film. I saw it again much later with several Christian brothers. I know I remember all that I see and hear, but I have never had a problem with profanity. I push it to the nether regions of my mind. I have noticed that if I don’t dwell on it or repeat it doesn’t come out of my mouth. Yes, the enemy will try to bring those words out of me, but he has been trying that since my older sibling taught me what those words were.
I need to clarify my statement about Black Hawk Down, the movie never attempted to portray military life. It was about one day, one mission. My brother called it the most realistic portrayal of combat involving the US military to come from Hollywood. I have read interviews with the US Army Rangers who were there and they found little to object to in the movie, some of them even assisted with making the movie.
Yes there are many other things we could discuss. There is the prayer of salvation or how about asking Jesus into your heart? Or tithing or the way churches are run or the Trinity. I appreciate your comments and contribution to this discussion.
anonymous,
I fear you have jumped to an extreme by taking one point and dismissing it with all of the normal Scriptures one might use. So let me point this out. You say you are not just a sinner saved by grace. What were you before you became saved? A sinner. How did you become saved? By grace (Eph 2:8) You say you are holy. I'm sure you might not look so holy to those closest to you but in my case I will go along. You say you are all of these verses, which by the way is true but you forget the rest of the Bible. If you are these great and mighty things then are you healing the sick consistently? Are you sharing the gopsel in season and out? Are you building up those to edification? Are there demonstrations of power in your words. It's easy to quote these verses of being a new a creature, being holy, being rightouesness and so forth but let us not forget that Jesus called people to action not just mere words. I hear what you are saying and I can even agree but do not over look the fruit aspect of your walk either. If I were to talk to your fellow employees what would they say? Don't just talk the talk. Walk your talk.
I will have to get your email josiah...
Mr. E
Here is one of my email addresses fireproof@3bubbas.com
I use this one to catch mail I don't want coming to my personal address because I don't like posting that one on an open forum. I will then give you my personal address.
Josiah
MR. E,
IT WAS NOT INTENDED TO MAKE ME SEEM HOLIER THAN THOU. I WAS JUST TRYING TO MAKE A POINT THAT I AM NOT JUST AN OLD SINNER SAVED BY GRACE.ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE. YES, I DO HAVE FAULT IN MY LIFE, I AM NOT PERFECT BUT I DO WALK MY TALK. IF YOU WERE TO ASK MY EMPLOYEES OF ME THEY WOULD TELL OF PEOPLE GETTING HEALING ALL OF THE TIME FROM PRAYER...CONSISTANTLY...ON THE JOB... ANYWAYS... IT IS NOT ME IT IS THE GLORY OF THE MOST HIGH!!!!WORKING THROUGH A WILLING VESSEL...HUMBLED AT THE FACT THAT HE WOULD USE ME... IT IS SO AWESOME!!!TO GOD BE THE GLORY...I HOPE I DIDN'T AFFEND YOU BY WHAT I SAID? IF I DID, FORGIVE ME?
no offense taken...nor do I perceive you as "holier than thou", I just thought it a little subjective to comment on 8 words from a post that was at least a few paragraphs...many times I encounter those who claim the faith and spout out verses on things they themselves do not even believe. It is encouraging to find those, such as yourself, living their faith amidst an unbelieving world and having an impact for the growth of the Kingdom..TO GOD BE THE GLORY...again. May grace be upon you as you are a light in the darkest of places...
MR E,
MUCH THANKS!!! I AM ONE AF THE MANY AMONG THE GROUP THAT HANG THAT ARE WALKING IN THE LIGHT AND LED BY THE LIGHT AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. MANY MIGHTY THINGS ARE AND HAVE BEEN HAPPENING. WHEN WE PRAY GOD LISTENS AND SHOWS UP. NOT BOASTING BUT BEING CONFIDENT IN HIS GLORY AND HIS ANNOINTING THAT WHATEVER WE ASK ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE WILL BE DONE....AND HEALINGS AND MIRACLES AND GRACE IS HIS WILL!!! THATS WHAT MAKES IT SO AWESOME!!GOD IS SOOOO GOOD!!HE AMAZES ME EVERYDAY....
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